Fr. Barron on Gay Marriage and the Breakdown of Moral Argument – http://www.wordonfire.org

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27 COMMENTS

  1. Please forward to me the written speech for I rather have it written ‘cos it is hard to listen and to also forward to people like me. Thank you.

  2. Jesus stated to me in prayer. In Moses day I could die out a generation by leading them around in the desert. Today I can’t do this. Gay people are here because a generation needs to die out. And it will, marriage or not.

  3. First of all, I would like to say that I truly respect Fr. Barron as my former professor at USML. In regards of this issue I would like to point out that as rector of USML he does not have a moral authority to discuss an argument on regards of “Breakdown of Moral Authority.” Why do I say that? I said that because I know and witness what it means to be a seminarian in that horrific place. First, many of those in formation do not even know what what moral is. Second, morality is something that many of the seminarians and many of those in the formation team do not practice. Third, Why he is against of gay marriage? It is perhaps that he does not want to starts celebrating SEMINARIAN weddings at USML? Fourth, USML is full of gay people! If I am not mistaken more than 90% of seminarians are gay, and they are sexual active in that place!

    • To Former USML Seminarian. You have not heard Fr. Barron properly. You’re confused about what it says. Perhaps it’s a reflection of your state confused mind?

    • To Former USML Seminarian: I totally agree with Steve because your response to this piece shows that you were not following the stipulated rules of your seminary. Also, you were indeed a bad one at that. I was a seminarian myself and i know what it involves. I wonder where you get those statistics from but i know you’re far more confused than Steve thinks.

  4. The flip side of the point Fr. Barron makes about “sentimentalizing” of Gay Marriage, is the complete absence of the notions of sin, degeneracy and decadence from the argument. It appears that while, deep down everyone would acknowledge that these exist, it is now taboo to even bring them up. The other side accuses you of “Hate” for even mentioning these issues. If we no longer have the moral certitude and intestinal fortitude to call a sin a sin, and to call out degeneracy and decadence for what they are, we will never be able to defend society or ourselves from those who would compromise us with the Devil.

  5. Fr. Barron,
    Due to the issue of sentimentalism that you spoke of, I very rarely weigh in on this issue. As a gay Catholic I cannot deny that this issue matters a lot to me. I however realize that I am conflicted by what my heart desires. I do think that we need a proper moral dialogue and I am overjoyed to see people like you helping all of us to take a step towards that dialogue. However the reason I feel compelled to say something is that under Pope Benedict the Church Hierarchy took many steps that seem almost completely in the opposite direction of dialogue. I don’t think many disillusion themselves with the idea that they can bring same-sex marriage into the Catholic Church, but when we are talking about “Gay Marriage” that is not what anyone means. It is simply a desire for equal rights and recognition by the secular world of a union between two people. No one is trying to deny the Church the right to a sacrament or attack the sacrament itself. Or at least this was the case several years ago before the Church decided it needed to save marriage and make gay marriage a major issue of faith. Gay people are not new, their unions are not new, gay Catholics that are open about their sexuality are not new, but, the attention is. Despite many people like you within the Church that approach the issue in a way that I believe is appropriate for someone who disagrees about an issue, I do think there has been many cases where bigotry is actually an appropriate description. By trying to ban gay men from the priesthood even though they are willing to give up their sexual expression just as straight men would, statements blaming the sex scandals on homosexuality, and trying the “gay marriage” issue to an atrocity like abortion in the “Religious Freedom” campaign the church has completely missed the real issue, not everyone is Catholic and even Catholics have their free will. As I’ve said before I do recognize that I’m very conflicted on the issue, but the Church’s response just doesn’t satisfy. I pray about my sexuality and its impact on my life almost every day, but I look to God for guidance on the subject because the Church’s approach just hasn’t had the pastoral touch that it needs. I’m looking and waiting for that dialogue that will make me feel like I’m truly in communion with the whole Church once again, even if it means choosing celibacy. But this dialogue within the Church should not be stopping the ability of others to fight for and win their rights. This is why I believe the polls show Catholics support “gay marriage”, we as Catholics have a very strong sense of social justice yet on the “gay marriage” issue we’ve had to see our Church stand against it. This leads me to thank God every day for the new direction that we as a church seem to be taking under Pope Francis. We are turning back to the real issues like the poor and loving one another as Christ commanded us to. In this spirit of love I believe we can dialogue, respect one another, and return to the communion that as a church we once shared.

      • James, what a wonderful letter. The Church falls very short on its pastoral touch no doubt. That is why I am excited to have Word on Fire and other new evangelizing tools.

    • James, I applaud your kind words. You are a good person and that’s why i read your letter to the end. Keep asking our loving Father for guidance in your choice of sexuality. Right now I said a prayer for you. God loves you.

    • James, I do think that the media does a great job in the demonisation of the Church and goes the extra mile when it comes to the topic of gay marriage. I am interested in what your parish priest has said to you on this matter. Do you not feel supported at all? If not, please carry on looking for the support you deserve, you will find it.
      What I heard from this interview above, was that there is no platform from which to begin discussing moral issues as there is no common ‘moral language’ that will allow for this discussion.
      Statistics and polls are used to put forward the acceptance of morally corrupt decisions, and these decisions and the accompanying consequences are bitterly regretted in hindsight. The effects on society and changes in the fabric of the world at large are held up as testament to the mistakenly informed decisions taken by the powers that be years before. The Church is the one moral barometer still left who hails everyone to focus on the minutia and consequences of decisions that will affect the nature of humanity and freedom for all.
      I wait with baited breath to hear Fr. Barron’s moral argument in favour for marriage as we still know and understand it.
      Lastly, what would the pastoral wing of the Church look like that offers care to those with same-sex attraction?

    • Nicely written. I agree with what you say, here. But, here’s the thing that I don’t see addressed here. What did Christ say when he described marriage. He didn’t say anything about “rights”. Is marriage a right in Christ’s eyes? Why can’t there just be a change in civil laws to protect these relationships and give them the same benefits under the law. Why does “marriage” have to be the issue? Christ stated that not everyone is to be married, and I see this should apply here. A lot of heterosexuals aren’t called to be married.

    • I’m tired of the argument about having equal rights. Gays have equal rights protected under the constitution. No one will arrest you and lock you up in jail for being gay. You have all the rights in the world to exercise fully. You can go ahead and join in civil union. But please do not hijack marriage. That is between a man and a woman, and DOMA was passed as a way to encourage families to stay in tact in an attempt to reduce the number of illegitimate births and single parent families. There are many things that I have a right to do that I can’t, such as breast feed in public. Talk about being in the closet!! I have to actually hide to feed my own child because many find it offensive if I do it out in the open. Yet, I have to “tolerate” what I feel is offensive because others want their “rights”. We need to all respect each other. RESPECT each other. RESPECT goes both ways. Respect does not mean we all get to do whatever the heck we want just because we feel we’re entitled to it.

  6. My friend, I am very glad you are no more a seminarian because you have not neen called. Go back to basics with the bible and repent of what you have said.

  7. Dear James,
    I enjoyed hearing the careful thought you put into your letter. There are, no doubt, many straight Catholics who are also conflicted.

    No man is without sin (including the Pope, priests, seminarians, etc.). And it’s unfortunate that we all expect them to be. All we can do is each live our lives trying to do the best we can, knowing that we will sin — but we will be forgiven.

    God is listening, and will help you resolve your conflicts. His time frame is, of course, perfect, even though it may not seem that way to us at the time. Keep praying, keep learning, keep seeking His Word and His guidance. For that is all any of us can do.

  8. I wish the Church WAS more open to the discussion of morality with this issue, since their stance is that gay marriage will always be immoral, no matter what the argument for it is. Wasn’t it MORE immoral in the days where gay people were so fearful of being outed that they DID marry someone they were not in love with, just to stay in hiding? Isn’t it horribly sinful to not be able to give yourself fully to that person you married? So unfair to the unsuspecting partner. If gay people cannot marry each other, WHERE are they going to EVER get the sanctioned love every human craves?

    • We are ALL called to be holy, and not give in to temptations, especially desires of the flesh. We are called to do everything for the glory of God. That’s it. And not think of ourselves, but of others and God. Heterosexuals are also called to be chaste, unless they are married and open to the gift of childbirth. Sorry folks, that’s what the Bible teaches. That’s why we are all sinners. We have strayed so far from this teaching.

  9. May we all listen to the voice of God in our church. Strive hard to focus not on our desires but the desire of God for us. There are all good and true that lead us to happiness. if we feel deprive here on earth offer it to God it is an opportunity to show how much we love Him, we will be purified as well in this way. Try to get outside of ourselves and be of service to others never lose the sight that all our actions good or bad affect one another. Jesus sacrificed Himself for us so we can be truly free from the blindness of sins that imprisoned us (within and without). We have to form our conscience well, pray more, in the silence of our heart HE speaks there. Strive to have personal encounter with our Lord when our love for Him grows, it will becomes easier to think less of our earthly desires and focus more on His will for our lives He loves us so much. He wants us to trust and listen to Him. But our human desires oftentimes disordered get in the way of attaining that higher spiritual goal. Let us pray that we He will give us the grace to strengthen us not to conform to the ways of the world. There is a sense of freedom if we overcome our selfishness the process is painful but very rewarding.

  10. May we all listen to the voice of God in our church. Strive hard to focus not on our desires but the desire of God for us. There are all good and true that lead us to happiness. if we feel deprive here on earth offer it to God it is an opportunity to show how much we love Him, we will be purified as well in this way. Try to get outside of ourselves and be of service to others, never lose the sight that all our actions good or bad affect one another. Jesus sacrificed Himself for us so we can be truly free from the blindness of sins that imprisoned us (within and without). We have to form our conscience well, pray more, in the silence of our heart HE speaks there. Strive to have a personal encounter with our Lord when our love for Him grows, it will becomes easier to think less of our earthly desires and focus more on His will for our lives He loves us so much. He wants us to trust and listen to Him. But our human desires oftentimes disordered get in the way of attaining that higher spiritual goal. Let us pray that we He will give us the grace to strengthen us not to conform to the ways of the world. There is a sense of freedom if we overcome our selfishness the process is painful but very rewarding.

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